I: This podcast has explicitly adult themes and language, listener discretion is advised.

[intro music]

I: I have a new thing that I got, I went thrifting recently, right?

J: Oh, very exciting!

I: It’s on my bedside table that I got this thing.

J: That looks like a lot of things. Oh no, the tray is the thing. I got it. It's very pretty.

I: Oh yeah, the many things that are on there is just a shit ton of sex toys and stuff, but this tray is going to be like my platter of sex toys that I have to present to partners. And I feel like you'd appreciate that of all people.

J: I- yes, that's I'm the target demographic for that. That's so good. Oh gosh!

I: Look at these little flower tiles! They’re so seventies! I really love it!

J: Very seventies. I also like that it's split into like thirds. So you could like sectioned off different types of sex toys. It's very organizational.

I: So I've set a bunch of different things for those like taking photos of it being like, look at my cute little sex tray.

J: Sex tray! You heard of a tea tray. Now get ready for…

I: Ot's my little sex tray. I think it's very cute. I thought that you, of all people, would really appreciate the sex tray and all that it is.

J: Oh, 100%. It's a beautiful idea.

I: I cannot take credit for it. My partner is the one who was like, “Oh, I know that you're really excited about tea parties. Can I propose something even better?” And I was like, “Oh my God, I'm so proud of you. I can't talk your brain just enough to have better ideas than I do!”

J: Do I need to invest more in…? I mean, sex toy storage, too. But like, I'm pretty okay with that. But I have like officially run out of room in my rope and I just bought like 100 more feet of rope. So…

I: What a damn mood. My display case is not big enough for all the things I own, and I have to hang up my floggers and they're just going to take up a whole wall at this point.

J: That's modern art.

I: That's what I think. I need to move some more things because I've got all my seedlings. I'm doing a garden this spring. We will see if it actually happens or if I kill everything, but the broccoli plants are excited. Once I move all that shit, I'm thinking of having all of the floggers and hitty stuff hanging on the wall beside the bed with this really cool oil painting above it. And then I have a display cabinet right there, and then I've got my sex tray and it's like, “Ha ha, I did it. Look at this!”

J: You got a whole little sex like hotel suite. It's so fancy.

I: Except I get to live here and sleep here every single day.

J: No it's like a really, really, really good space that you've got. All right. Well, hi, I'm James.

My pronouns are he/him. And I am a pretty boy. [small squeeing sound]

I: Hi, my name is Iris. My pronouns, are they/them and I don't have anything prepared for this, so I'm just existing.

J: The two opposite states of being. I've been looking at that and I'm a pretty boy tagline for like, I'm full month now, and I spent a significant portion of this morning just like mentally rehearsing. And I'm like, I can say this cool and confident and not stupid, and I think I pulled it off. This is kinky queries podcast where you send in questions and we work out the kinks, or more often than not, work in the kinks. And I'm very excited about today's question. Today's question is what is praise kink? It's actually I learned quite a lot during research for this. So I'm I was pitching this idea to a couple of friends of mine that are also listeners of the show, one of whom is very vanilla. And she was just, like, so excited because she's like, “Oh yeah, that's that's probably like the kink I have, you know, just by being very, very vanilla” and I'm like, “Well, what's interesting is that I want to like, take time to differentiate the kink from like the normal human enjoyment of compliments.” Because like humans are social creatures, social creatures who are like in the default setting. Humans like complements humans like being told they did well. I want to differentiate between praise as like a kink and just compliments or like verbal affirmation as a love language because there's like really interesting difference there. And kind of when I started this journey of like, what is praise kink, I found out that the term itself is actually very new, which is weird because like when you think about praise can get like, this is not a new concept. This is like, again, like very, very baseline to human beings. But there's like, I don't think, much usage of the term before the 1980s that's been documented or undocumented have survived, at least. So I thought that was really interesting.

I: So I'm not a real praise kinker. I'm not really good at the whole giving compliments, and I'll fucking cut a bitch if they try and give me one.

J: Oh, that’s interesting. I should have known that before pitching this topic. I'm sorry.

I: No, it's totally OK. But I'm sitting here being like, “Yeah, like, that sounds nice…..”

J: [laughs]

I: But what if you were just like a dick to me instead? And that's my own personal preference.

J: Also valid, though. A lot of actually what I saw when I was researching was people who are like mixed praise and derogatory language like right next to each other, just like a whole chopped salad of both a very popular one.

I: Yeah, I mean, in the grand scheme of praise, like I can take praise as like, Oh, you're a good little derogatory term right here. And we talked a little bit about that with the booty shorts I recently purchased. And for those who are listening, I recently bought booty shorts that say “He Him Hoe” on the backside.

J: They are quite good.

I: But there was a question of should it be “He Him Hoe” or “He Him Hole”, the difference between that letter means a lot.

J: So that's one letter, but it's yeah. Well, my argument in favor of “He Him Hoe” is…. I don't know hoe feels like an action word. You know, hoe is an active participant in the sexual act whereas hole? And obviously, this is not a negative in any sense of the word. But if you're putting it on shorts, holo is just like, you know, a thing to fuck. It's not the act of fucker in any regard, and I don't know. I feel like hoe is classier than hole on your ass.

I: I like to be a classy ho. However, I really like both. And that says a little bit about me because I think of when I've had partners call me a hole before it's usually in reference to dollification, where I already know that they appreciate me. I already know that they enjoy me, and I already kind of like the praise component or like the affirmations that I need, not the praise. I have the affirmations that I need. And then it's like, Cool. I already know you give a shit about me. Let me be your hole. Pick which one you want. We’ll negotiate ahead of time kind of thing.

J: That makes sense.

I: So I think like I approach, but this is a long winded way of saying I approach affirmations very differently. But I understand why someone would want praise, why someone will want the compliment, why someone would want those affirmations more front and center than what I experience. So I apologize. James, you are going to be leading this a little bit more than previously just because I'm a little bit out of my depth. The less I've looked at the materials, I'm excited about this conversation, but I feel like I'm coming from a little too far away.

J: And that's a good lens to like counter balance as well. And like, Oh, how the turntables, because sometimes you talk about kinks and I'm like, I'm a kinky motherfucker, but Iris is out of

my depth. Well, and also, this actually is a great time to. Our previous conversation about like, what's really kinky for one person is like a great kinky thing is just not another kinky person's cup of tea.

I: Can I give you a compliment?

J: Hmmm?

I: Can I give you a compliment?

J: Sure.

I: Cool. You've got this. I believe in you.

J: Thanks. I'm going to drink my water and totally deny that.

I: That wasn't meant to be kinky. That's more like to affirm you in the middle of this podcast. I don't know if this part is actually going to make it into the final cut, but you know,

J: No, that was very nice of you. No, I just I don't want to just feel free to chime in or I'm just going to accidentally monologue at you for an hour. And this is probably a great time to to Segway into like the key difference between praise as a king and like compliments as like a construct, right? So what Iris just said with the whole like, you've got this sort of thing that's like a totally innocuous and normal statement. My brain went skidding sideways because of the context we're in. And I was just like, “Oh no, Iris was just being nice to me. What the fuck.”

I: I’m nice to you!

J: No, you're always nice to me. I just that. I don't like people being directly nice to me. It breaks my brain a little bit. It's very nice and I crave it immensely. But I also can't. It's like the Sun. I need the sun, but I cannot look at it. Does that make any sense?

I: It's a little bit too much direct sunlight is what I just did.

J: Yeah, but like, I mean, that's good in moderation. What just happened with me and Iris, where I was like, I'm just going to give you a normal nice compliment because you're my friend and I care about you and my brain's like, oooohhh, praise here have way too much serotonin. And then I lose the ability to think for a couple of seconds, kind of for me. And it's obviously not all compliments, like if someone tells me, like you did a good job and I'm like, at my workplace is not going to do it for me. But if someone it's like the tone of voice is a certain way or like, it's a certain person and they say, like, “Hey, you did a good job”, I'll stop thinking my brain turns to cotton candy. I become an idiot for a couple of seconds and it's very unnerving, frankly.

I: I'm stealing what you just said about your brain being cotton candy. That sounds like a very fun, erotic hypnosis scene.

J: Yeah, that's well, that's how I have taken describing it. I've got a friend of mine who I previously dated, and I'm so very grateful that we still remain friends after that. And they were aware of just how very susceptible I am to praise kink. And they're like, “Hey, now that we're no longer dating, I want to. I really respect your boundaries and like, make sure I don't do anything that's going to make you uncomfortable.” And I'm like, OK. nine out of ten times, you're probably going to be fine. Here's one ground rule you cannot tell me I'm a good boy anymore, and I was trying to find words to explain what happens. And basically what I came up with is it basically turns my brain to static in the context of like a scene that's really delightful. And I love that. But in a context where like, I'm supposed to be in the regular world and like a functional adult, I can't afford to lose those five seconds of, you know, being kind of stupid. That's kind of the origin of my cotton candy metaphor was I was trying to explain it to a friend.

I: I love it. Honestly, I think it's great, and I can definitely understand why that is a huge issue and day to day life.

J: Interesting thing with those research pieces I was looking into, which also will be linked in the description of this on our website. It's also known as “affirmation kink”. So it's not just about like compliments, it's about like affirming a person's state of being as like good or correct or competent even. So I think I don't know. I thought the concept of affirmation kink was really, like, beautiful in a way. It feels very wholesome.

I: I think I kind of like the name affirmation kink a little bit more than praise because praised, just like it feels a little bit more along the lines of you did a good job while affirmation is just like you as a whole, entire human being, not just in the moment of you doing the good job are consistently good or wonderful, etc. I kind of like the phrasing a little bit better.

J: Yeah, I think that totally makes sense to, especially because I like what you're tapping into and that ties into Evie Lupine is a YouTuber that I found who talked about this subject really well, that video breaks down affirmation kink into basically like three types, one of which is like a live to please type, which is like very service oriented and like the praise itself would be about doing a good job or like completing a task correctly, whereas a different subtype would be like value and like seeking out the feeling of being beautiful or the feeling of being like, you know, having having worth or like even borderline worship to some degree. So that, I thought, was like a really interesting dichotomy of these two different types. And then, of course, the third type is a kind of different type of fun, which is the idea of people who can't take a compliment and the praise sort of embarrasses them. And what was really interesting about this theory is the idea that, you know, living to please are the value aspect of affirmation kink. That's a direct line of pleasure, right? Like the praise or the words directly caused the pleasure, whereas this embarrassment model kind of takes an indirect route to the pleasure. Basically, the praise causes embarrassment, and the embarrassment is what causes the pleasure, which is fascinating and fun. And I think that ties in really well with like humiliation kink. And like a lot of other different types of verbal play.

I: Can I ask a clarifying question?

J: Yeah.

I: So when you're talking about the embarrassment, one is the pleasure associated with the person who's feeling embarrassed or the person who is causing the embarrassment.

J: I think in this particular example discussed in the video, it is the person who is feeling the embarrassment. There was not a lot about, you know, praise givers or affirmation givers like the talker in this situation, rather than the the recipient of the words. I think that is a component of it, too. It's the idea of like overwhelming someone with praise, an element of control in that as well. It's definitely emphasized that like this, kink works best inside an already existing power dynamic. If the recipient of the words is like an embarrassment subtype, the talker in this situation is probably a dominant that likes to embarrass their submissive in a way like that would most make sense and be most like, optimized for the play. Yeah, there's definitely like a tie in to humiliation play, even though the language is kind of opposite in the sense of like you kind of lack control in how your body responds to these words, basically.

I: Mhm.

J: So for a dominant type person, if you enjoy like causing your submissive to lose control and they, like, exist in one of these kind of break down categories, kink praise specifically, I think that aligns, if that makes sense.

I: Yeah, I mean, I feel like praise, affirmation, degradation and humiliation. They all feel like very closely tied together.

J: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I think the overlap between them is really interesting because obviously when you look at the words themselves of like affirmation versus degradation, they're like they're clearly opposite words, but like the effects they can have physically could be very, very similar to each other and psychologically.

I: Right. And also, you can use words that seem like praise, but could actually be degrading somebody.

J: Definitely. Yeah.

I: And same the other direction, like the number of people who I know who are like, Oh yeah, know I'm just a little slut or I'm whatever they enjoy being called like. Technically, they're being degraded, but they love being called that it's affirming to them.

J: Hole, affectionate. I pulled like Oxford Dictionary definitions between praise and compliments, but I don't know if that's necessary.

I: I noticed that.

J: I would say I wanted to get into like the really subtle nuance of just like the language we use to talk about these things too. But basically, like a compliment is a polite expression of admiration, whereas praise can definitely be seen as approval or admiration. And also, even the Oxford definition kind of defines it as gratitude as an act of worship, which I saw, interestingly enough, specifically in Evie Lupine’s video. The idea that praise can be a sort of an inverse role of like the body worship or like goddess worship dynamic, where, like the submissive is laying on praise or like physical affection upon the dominant. This is sort of an inverse of that, where the dominant lays upon the praise or the affirmations, or even like, you know, the physical appreciation of the submissive. And yet the power dynamic is still the same. The dominant is obviously still the one with the like control of the moment. I don't know. I just really like moments in kink where it's just like these two kinks are the same thing, just like flipped, and they have like completely different names and completely different histories. And I love that linguistically, I guess.

I: I think my favorite part of the praise definition is the expression of respect and gratitude as an act of worship. I think that's the perfect definition for what we're trying to explain, and that's what separates it from just a compliment.

J: Yeah. Tying back in with degradation to when we think of praise, if that's what you give a dog, that's what you give, like something that's behaving well, you know? So there's that element to it, too, where it's it's a compliment is defined as polite or like congratulatory, whereas praise is very much like something more than that and also has that element of power.

I: Yeah, no. That makes complete sense.

J: Well, now that I'm thinking about it too, pet play and affirmation kink, I mean, they obviously go hand-in-hand.

I: Oh yeah, except for how I do pet play. But that's different, kind of. When we were originally talking about Evie Lupine’s different definitions I was thinking about, like when I'm in duck space, that is the only time that I want compliments because I just want to be a good little duck. I want to be a duckling and I want to imprint on people and occasionally lay an egg and have lots of feathers and learn to fly and swim and all this other stuff. And I just want to be wholesome. Yeah, I know you're making lots of faces.

J: Listeners. I need you to know I'm drowning. I'm drowning in emotions right now. This is the cutest thing.

I: But you made me think of that a little bit. So maybe I have like some praise oriented wants and needs as a duck.

J: Well, that makes sense to you because it's a different like power dynamic system for you. Like so often when you're in power exchange play, you're playing with different parts of power exchange.

I: And most of the time, I'm dominant, honestly.

J: That'll do it. Yeah, that'll do it.

I: Well, like in the grand scheme of things, most of the time I'm dominant and I tend to be the person who is like inflicting things. And so when I do decide to be like more the submissive side, it's just like, make me in a hole that's not thinking and completely not a person anymore. Or I'm going to be a bratty horse that is going to ruin your shit and you will not be able to tame me, proven that a couple times, or I’m a duckling. And I imprint on someone and I just keep going to imprint on something.

J: Wow. The three genders. A hole, a bratty horse, and a duckling. The one thing I did want to chime in before we wrap and this is sort of like a health and safety type thing. I think it's important to emphasize that praise play or affirmation play is not like a long term solution to low self-esteem. A lot of times kink can be therapeutic, but kink is not therapy, and both Evie Lupine and myself would like to caution the idea of using affirmation play to help improve someone's self-esteem because you're just creating a different problem if, like one person gets all of their verbal self-worth from the dominant because that creates a different set of problems. It doesn't actually build self-esteem. It's fun, and it can be kind of like a gateway to ease into therapy or to identify problems, but like, it's not therapy. And I think that's really important to emphasize.

I: Yeah no, I appreciate that you're emphasizing that because we even talked about it quite a bit like the combination of BDSM, kink, and mental health. Like, there's so much going on there. Maybe a future episode. If someone could send us a question that’d be great. But at some point we probably should cover like the intricacies of like mental health and BDSM and kink. Thanks so much for listening as we talk about our favorite things. Got a kinky question? Send us your queries, kinky queries at gmail.com or follow us on Twitter at @kinkyqueeries. That's k i n k y q u e e r i e s. We'll have our next episode ready for your eager ears in two weeks. That's April fifth, 2022.

[outro music]