J: This podcast has explicitly adult themes and language. Listener discretion is advised.

[intro music starts]

J: Just because I was so curious. I'm really excited about this episode, just because there's so many different reasons to safe word, not just because, like your headspace is changed or like something serious is happening. It could be something totally innocuous, like needing a bathroom break or like having a cramp and like, you can't hold that position anymore. And you were just saying that..

I: Yeah, I have blued for like a like cramp before.

J: And I've never heard the term blued. I've definitely heard like, safe worded as like a verb or like calling red if you're using the stoplight system, I've never heard blue before.

I: So blue is part of the stoplight system and how people, some individuals go about it. So for many, many individuals it's red, full stop, yellow like pause or check in, green being like everything's fucking going well. And another like that, some people add on is blue, which means it's medical related or health related.

J: Ohhhh! That makes sense.

I: I've used it a couple times when I've done the lighting system previously, partially because like leg cramps, partially because I have allergies and I've gone into anaphylaxis before, not during sex…

J: Oh no!

I: But it's like something that like someone during a sexual encounter should be aware of. I've dislocated my left hip before because I'm an interesting 27 year old. [starts laughing]

J: Wait, are you allergic to latex or is it like pollen in the air allergies?

I: I don't know. I've got a two allergists and I've had a lot of allergy testing and they don't know what's wrong with me.

J: Oh, that's awful. I'm so sorry.

I: I've only gone into anaphylaxis once, granted, it was a restaurant, but nonetheless, I always want to communicate to a partner like, “hey, this those once previously happened, and this is where you'll find the EpiPen. Do you have questions about the EpiPen?” Just cause that's general good education for any individual that I might come across in the world. And also that would be a really weird way to die. And I want to die like a little bit more extravagantly.

J: That would not not the brand. The kinky part is the brand, anaphylactic shock, not the brand. Also, I'm so glad this podcast in of itself has taught me so much, not just from the things where it's like, “Oh, I had no experience with this thing”, but the way in which you bring like medical history into a consent conversation. I'm very, very privileged in terms of medical history. So like it is not usually in the forefront of my mind. I definitely have the history of being like, Tell me if there's anywhere that's like particularly sore that you don't want me to like interact with or like is what I'm teaching about it. I'm like, you know, talk about any past injuries or if you have, like, like you were saying like a hip that hurts or like a part of your arm that's been recently like kind of funky or something like that. But I never would have thought to be like, “Yeah, I'm allergic to stuff in case that happens in a scene. Here's where the EpiPen is,” that's so smart and makes so much sense.

I: Yeah. First off, thank you. I appreciate that quite a bit. Sharing that kind of feedback, it makes me really happy. Second, yeah, it's really important to have those kinds of conversations. I feel like they don't come up enough.

J: My thought process with kink, so much is in like the mental health and the external or like muscle-based physical health. I'm not even thinking of like immune system stuff or like even for myself. I would have never considered this until right now, but like I probably should tell certain partners that like, hey, I mean, I'm not like, quote, anemic, unquote anymore, but I'm like two points away from being anemic and was formerly and I take medication to prevent being anemic, basically. So, you know, any, any play that like is going to involve being inverted or anything that might restrict blood flow is not going to be really safe for me. So that would be something that's great to have awareness over it.

I: Part of this is inspiration from like other partners that I've had in like their health and body awareness and making sure that I'm aware of the individuals that I'm interacting with. But also it's just like self-advocacy for my own body of being like, “Sorry, I don't really feel like dying in this scene.” As someone who loves murder play, it's got to be murder, not like accidental anaphylaxis or some bullshit like that.

J: Murder play. Damn. Am I going to revive my entire NBC Hannibal like fandom years to make that happen for myself? Perhaps. Anyway, this has been a very long winded way of saying today's question is about safe words. Hi, this is Kinky Queries, a podcast where you send in questions and we work out the kinks, or definitely more often than not, work in the kinks.

My name is James. My pronouns are he/him and I am a very big fan of the stoplight system. But I think the act of creating a safe word is very beautiful. I like… I like having a lot of meaning to a safe word. And my safe word is singularity. Is that Tony Stark related? I'll never tell.

I: Sure.

[I and J start laughing]

I: Hey, my name is Iris. I use they/he pronouns, and my safe word is waffles.

J: I am fascinated by that safe word choice, by the way.

I: Why?

J: Because you like waffles, like colloquially and in everyday practice. Like you…

I: But would I say it during kink and BDSM?

J: I guess not. And you're definitely not. Usually. And admittedly, when I first read today's question, which today's question is, is it ever okay to play without using a safe word? When I initially read this. My brain immediately went to the concept of 24/7 relationships, which even then you definitely need to have a safe word. But you don't really engage in 24/7relationships, do you?

I: I have previously engaged in one. I am not currently in one.

J: Because that you with waffles is a safe where my immediate thought is like, oh my gosh, what are they going to do when like if they were in a 24/7 situation and like…

I: I’d change the safe word.

J: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it is that easy, isn't it?

I: Like, this is my current safe word and it's because it works with, like, the dynamics that I currently have. If I was to be on a 24/7 dynamic, it would not be waffles because I fucking love waffles and I eat them a little too often and I have a holiday that I dedicate to them.

J: That’s what I was thinking to. I'm like, Yeah, there's, there's like a whole chunk of December that's all waffles all the time for Iris.

I: No, that's November. Wafflesgiving.

J: Oh it's November. Oh it's you're right. I was confusing it with Festivus. My apologies. So, Iris, where did you first find this question? I think it's a really, really thoughtful one.

I: It's actually a question I've seen pop up in several different forums that I've been a part of on social media where it's like kind of a conversation starter to like talk about consent and a lot of different groups. And so there's a lot of discourse and in some groups it's very much like everybody needs a safe where they need to have some sort of consent structure that exists, whether it's like the light system or a specific word or gestures or tapping or something like this has to be something that exists. And some people do not feel this way.

J: Oh, interesting.

I: Yes, I think it's important that we talk about it.

J: So you have like short answer, no, long answer, still no. I would argue no, because you can't even really say that, because if you were to say, we don't need a safe word, just say no. The safe word is technically no or stop. Those are still words that are being used functionally as a safe word, because I would imagine the main argument against this question is that like, you know, if you're not doing a scene where like consensual non consent is part of the play or like trying to get away is part of the play, if you're not doing any of that, if it's just, you know, like someone is very willingly bent over something and someone is very like, you know, there's no restraints or like nothing even suspicious to imply lack of consent. Then you could say like, okay, just say stop and I'll stop, you know, where there's no hindrance there. But even still, the word stop in that particular case is the safe word, basically, or like anything related to that is a safe word.

I: Right. And so when I was first ever exposed to you, is it ever okay to play without a safe word? My brain didn't actually go to that. It was actually more focused on like, oh, you're talking about verbal versus nonverbal communication. That's so cooll. And so I answered it. Yeah, like, yeah, if you're not able to communicate verbally, like having hand gestures or tapping out or like having like a ball that you're squeezing and you drop it suddenly when like that is your communication that something is wrong or you need to pause and communicate, there's totally opportunities to do that. Completely got corrected within the forum.

J: That’s not the question being asked.

I: We love the enthusiasm. Love where your head's up. That's not the question.

J: Yeah. Which I guess the shorthand for those things are basically be just safe signals, which at the end of the day, same thing is a safe word.

I: Right. And those signals are really helpful for like if you are gagged or playing with breath or if there's like some reason like maybe you're in a mindspace. Really verbalization is really difficult. I know that when I'm in like really heavy subspace, the verbalization is just not always possible or when I'm in pet play space. Like if I'm quacking, I don't have words, I'm just a duck. If I'm a horse, I'm just neighing and like [insert horse noise here] but I can't say things. But I can stomp when I'm a horse. And if I'm a duck and I don't want to play anymore, I can definitely like either get into my own space, which is like my nest and that's like an alone duck space. And those are the ways that I'm able to communicate. Like there's still ways.

J: I also think, and admittedly this is going to vary based on the type of play you do. But I've seen examples of like if someone gets too far in their own head to the point where they will no longer have a grip on like a ball or whatever they're holding as a safe signal, it's not even that they're intentionally dropping it. It's just that they're so out of their mind that they just drop it because they're not thinking about it anymore. That, you know, unless if you want to get into that kind of play where you're totally out of your mind, it's a different thing. But like I've seen that as a safety precaution in the sense of like, I don't want anyone so far gone that they're not paying attention to consent anymore. So if you stop focusing, we stop playing well. But that's definitely going to vary person to person.

I: That definitely varies from person to person. I think that also is part of the negotiation. If you're aware that that is going to happen. That needs to be part of the negotiations. You can create an actual system that works for both of you.

J: Definitely.

I: Because if you decide to do the situation and you know that it's like not uncommon for you to get to that state where you'll drop the ball not out of like revoking consent or needing to pause, but just because, like, you might just lose your grip that that's an issue in its own way.

J: Yeah. And I think especially in a situation like that, that's an instance of the safe word almost being, even though the person safe wording as a verb is a submissive. I feel like that's a situation where it's safe wording for the dom or the dominant does not want to be playing with someone that far gone. Which actually great segway into how would we define a safe word or a safe signal in this case?

I: I found a definition online that I think phrased it pretty okay, but I wanted to add some, like, extra flair to it, if that's all right.

J: Yeah.

I: Okay. So the definition is a word that would never otherwise be spoken during play, but when it is uttered, it means that one or the other of the people involved in the scene has had enough and wants to stop no matter what that reason may be. I want to expand upon that. Is that safe words don't necessarily keep you safe, like their importance not supposed to be uttered unless like needs to be uttered or like the individual wants to utter it. But like the word isn't necessarily going to be the safety mechanism. The safety mechanism is the respect that from the partner or partner that's a g safe word has been utilized.

J: Yeah, that is an excellent point to emphasize there. The safe word in and of itself is just a signal. It is you know, if you're using the stoplight system, this metaphor works perfectly. If there is a red light at an intersection, it is not the light that prevents people from going into the intersection. It is the driver that sees the light and stops the car. So if you've got a driver that's not paying attention, they're going to blow the red light. If you've got a driver that's, you know, visually impaired in some way, they're not going to see the light. Which actually brings it to a great point. If you say a safe word and it's maybe you're in a loud club and like literally you say it too quietly and someone cannot hear you. That's not necessarily like, oh, no, the safe word failed. It's the safe word wasn't designed correctly for the space you need to take into account not just the word itself, but the environment you're in. Any hearing impairments or visual impairments that the dominant might have or the the party listening for the safe word. I think that's a really great point to highlight that it's not like a magic word that makes everything stop suddenly. It's a word that tells the dominant or the party that has the agency to, you know, make the scene stop to engage those things. And this also ties in, especially with things like bondage. You say the safe word and the ropes don't disappear immediately. The safe word is the activation to get scissors. Safe words aren't safety in and of themselves. They come with a bunch of other mechanisms that you have to have in place. Like if you're playing with rope, you have to have scissors nearby that are, you know, ideally those fancy EMT sheers. You can buy them at most places that sell rope actually. Or if you were playing with impact play and blood is spilled and that was not what anyone negotiated. So you safe word out of that you need to have bandages nearby like the kind of thing where you just want to have the safe word as the indicator of next steps, what the next steps are, what's more important than anything else.

I: Yes, I completely agree. Like that's a really good explanation.

J: I just love safety because nothing is sexier than being safe.

I: Some other things that I wanted to add to the definition or you had already mentioned this, but it's not just for a submissive, it's for everyone. Anyone can safe word out. Anyone can revoke consent for whatever reason. That needs to be expressed more because there is this mentality within the community that the safe word isn't necessarily from the community, but like there's a weird mentality where like this is meant for a submissive when really this is meant for everybody.

J: And I really like using the example of role play specifically too, because like obviously in any scene, anyone should be able to safe word at any time because a submissive and a dominant are equally impacted by the actions of a scene. But if you have something like role play or even like an extended sort of role play situation where you're both acting as completely different, people like the dominant may want to safe word just to like check in and be like, Hey, breaking character for a moment. And that's a really good and formalized way to do that.

I: Yes, I love that. I love role play. Role play is fun.

J: I love role play. And I also I love outside of kink but the use of safe words that my friend group does is the idea of, like, taking a joke too far. Right. Like, my friend group wants to be really conscious of, like, hey, I'm joking about something and you are uncomfortable. But sometimes you being uncomfortable is part of the joke. I want to make sure the joke is still okay. And you're not, like, actually uncomfortable. So what, you know, the joke or in this situation, we'll do is like, hey, color. And that's sort of the quote dominant. Again, this is not a dumb subject thing, but more just like a joker jokey situation, whatever nomenclature aside, the dominant not necessarily safe wording, but wanting to check in about the safe word. So it's not just the submissive’s responsibility to constantly be the one calling for a safe word, but the dominant can also take agency in asking for, you know, to just check in without totally breaking the scene. So a lot of times someone would be poking fun at someone in my group. The discomfort seems to be getting a little high and some would be like, Hey, color, and someone will be like, Oh no, green. I'm just kind of hamming my discomfort because it's funny. Or someone will say, like yellow, we're like, It's fine, but let's stop talking about that now.

I: I love that kind of communication, it’s awesome.

J: Look, it's so great.

I: What I kind of want to try and move into is that like this question is kind of getting at the BDSM and kink community, having this weird like subculture that glorifies like hardcore and intensity within the community which creates an inherent fear of like wanting to safe word or show any form of weakness, show that there might be a problem. And I think that's really important to hit upon. This particular question is showing that kind of insecurity.

J: Yeah, I agree completely. And I definitely have struggled with the whole like, oh, I don't want a safe word out of this. I want to be able to take this or whatever. But that mentality is not only very damaging to the submissive who's not safe wording, but it is soooo guilt riddling for a dominant to find out about that, I've been on kind of both sides of that coin where it's just like, Oh my God, please safe word. I don't want you to push through anything that you don't want to do. And I think that idea of like being hard core or like for me in particular, I love impact play, I love the idea of pain play, but I have a very, very low pain points, or at least lower than I would like. I have a higher pain tolerance in most of my friends, but from my perspective of the BDSM scene, feel like I have a low pain tolerance which can make impact play scenes very frustrating for me because I want to be able to do more than I'm actually able to do.

And regardless, it's important for me to still see forward when something becomes too much for me, regardless of what I think I should be able to take. Because it's not about should. It's about listening to one's own body.

I: It's not about the should. It's like what you can and what you want because it's still like the whole point of this is like play and pleasure and to like experience different things from our “normal” (in quotes) lives every day. At its essence, the word play is what makes the most sense. It's play.

J: Exactly.

I: And you're not supposed to push yourself when you're playing.

J: And BDSM isn't always about, quote, fun, unquote. Sometimes it can be about catharsis or, you know, other things. But like at the end of the day, it's not about doing things you don't want to do or doing things that like are harmful in the not fun way.

I: I'm in a slightly similar boat as you is that I want to be more physically masochistic. I want to be able to take pain in a physical sense more than I currently am able to. But that's not possible. I'm a fucking rough dom, but like I'm a very soft sub when it comes to physicality. However, I am a chaotic person pertaining to like mental and emotional torture.

J: And that's a good point too. Like what one person and we've said this again and again, what one person may see is very hardcore and intense. Another person sees this just like kind of a walk in the park trying to mold yourself based on whatever that social stigma or that imagined stigma is is not really the best way to engage with BDSM.

I: Right.

J: We all know, like what a verbal safe word is. It's you say a word, someone here is, you say a word, things stop or pause.

I: And I put sounds in that category because I have previously used pterodactyl screeches as a safe word.

J: Oh, that's I mean, that's definitely going to be recognizable. That's.

I: Yeah, no, it's loud and it's hellish and it's like, I've never been in a dungeon space because it's just like, I don't want to scare the shit out of people, but wouldn't it be fun?

J: I find it very helpful because I know sometimes safe wording is still hard for me personally. I find it super helpful when someone just like kind of leans in and asks for my color because I'm way more likely to yellow than I am to red something. So it just that idea of like getting a breather, talking it out a little bit more, I'm very helpful, but I think not just because social stigma reasons they warning it can be tricky for me. But if I get nervous about something, my fight or flight response is freezer or fawn. And both of those usually result in me losing the ability to speak. So I definitely fall in that category of sometimes I go nonverbal in a scene and I think having safe signals is a great way to do that. Something like, you know, having a ball in your hand and if you drop it, that means the scene needs to stop. Or even a. Less extreme. Example two If you are performing oral, your mouth is occupied. You very literally cannot speak. The idea of, you know, even something so simple as just like tapping someone's thigh twice and that's can be used in less intense, less hardcore scenes where it's just like, hey, my jaw is getting sore and you'd, like, take a moment and step back, you know, I will. I will get back to ellating you in a moment. Safe words are used. You stop a whole scene. Right? But the idea of emphasizing that a safer can also just be a pause. A safe word can be a trick and makes them a little less intimidating.

I: Yeah, things that I have done or I've had people do with me are like clapping. I've had like peace signs or what's the one from Star Trek?

J: Oh, the Vulcan.

I: Yes, I've had that previously. When I'm topping for impact related or anything pain related or even sensation, actually, I usually negotiate like a 1 to 10 scale with one being like, I can't fucking feel a thing. Ten Being like, this is excruciating, basically a safe word. And five is like the happy medium. Like this is what you want to be feeling and checking in with different instruments to see like where they are on that scale and what intensity is their five. And also negotiating like are you okay going up to like a seven or eight to like get those extremes and then playing with sensation or like a different, softer feeling or less intense feeling. I shouldn't say softer, a less intense sensation in like the three and four. And like playing with those like levels and creating a rhythm out of that as well has been really helpful for communication and for individuals who are not able to verbal. They're very good at bringing up fingers. Fingers are very good for number scales.

J: Yeah. No, I think that's so smart. I've definitely heard of that system before in terms of like pain play specifically, I like your system where it's like we're aiming for five and like we'll negotiate if we want to go around that space. But I've definitely also heard one is you can't feel it. Ten is this is the worst pain ever. Tell me what you want to feel like. What are our goals today? Maybe your goal is to get to a nine. Maybe that's where you want to be. And I think, you know, it's a different system than what you're suggesting. But I like the idea of that number system because it gets you talking throughout the scene to or if you're not talking, at the very least, getting very familiar with that hand gesture, very familiar with being aware of your own pain tolerance.

I: Mhhm…Yeah. I think it's a really helpful system, at least for me as a top. It's not always the system of choice when negotiating, but it, it's something that is accessible and pretty self-explanatory to any individual. And then we can practice from there. I've seen individuals also use squeaky toys, so it's sort of like squeaking something.

J: A squeaky toy is a great idea. That's like a very distinct, very loud sound. It's very hard to miss something like that.

I: Yeah. Or like one of those rubber chickens that scream. Those are always good.

J: There are probably a bunch of different types of safe words we didn't even consider

I: And we would love to hear about them as well. So if anybody has something that like we didn't discuss, like send us a message we probably get about how you safe word.

J: Yeah. If you've got a unique, safe word style or like a safe word story, that's like pretty funny. My favorite are the ones where it's like, I got a cramp. We got to reconfigure, send us any stories, send us any ideas at kinky queries. Yeah. And thanks just so much for listening as we talk about our favorite things. I love talking about safe words. I think there are really important tool and also you can make them really fun. I think your number system is a great way to do that where it's like not just about coordinating the right feeling, it's also kind of making it a conversation. I think that's so magical. Yeah. If you've got a kinky question or got a kinky story that you want to share, send us your queries at kinkyqueeries@gmail.com or follow us on Twitter at @kinkyqueeries. That's k i n k y q u e e r i e s. We'll have our next episode ready for your eager ears in two weeks. That will be May 3rd, 2022. And I'm cautiously optimistic we can hit that deadline.

I: We got this!

J: Oh, man. I'm so glad we did this as a topic. I love, I love talking about safewords.